Thursday, 23 August 2012 Dog Shaming quote [ I hump other dogs' faces ] Experts claim that dogs are incapable of actually feeling guilt. Post marked SFW, but some of these dogs have been very naughty. [humour] [by sanepride@4:23pmGMT] [+10 Funny]

spazm said @ 4:37pm GMT on 23rd Aug I don't know much about dogs as I've never had one, but cats seem to know exactly when they're up to no good, and don't give a shit and go ahead anyway. I love that. Most of the times.

spite48 said @ 4:51pm GMT on 23rd Aug Some dogs do seem to know that they've done something wrong, and seem tormented by their own weakness. Cats don't seem to care about anyone else's preferences. A cat will never learn or agree to stay off the kitchen counter, they'll usually only learn to avoid doing so when you're looking.

quaint said @ 5:34pm GMT on 23rd Aug [Score:1 Funny] They say that dogs are a man's best friend, but not even my own worst enemy could look me right in the eyes whilst he shat on my carpet.

spazm said @ 5:47pm GMT on 23rd Aug And that's exactly what I like about cats. They know, but they can't be arsed, and they get away with it a lot of the time! Who wouldn't like to live like that?

H.P. Lovecraft said @ 8:48pm GMT on 23rd Aug [Score:1 Informative] “Throw a stick, and the servile dog wheezes and pants and stumbles to bring it to you. Do the same before a cat, and he will eye you with coolly polite and somewhat bored amusement. And just as inferior people prefer the inferior animal which scampers excitedly because someone else wants something, so do superior people respect the superior animal which lives its own life and knows that the puerile stick-throwings of alien bipeds are none of its business and beneath its notice. The dog barks and begs and tumbles to amuse you when you crack the whip. That pleases a meekness-loving peasant who relishes a stimulus to his self importance. The cat, on the other hand, charms you into playing for its benefit when it wishes to be amused; making you rush about the room with a paper on a string when it feels like exercise, but refusing all your attempts to make it play when it is not in the humour. That is personality and individuality and self-respect -- the calm mastery of a being whose life is its own and not yours -- and the superior person recognises and appreciates this because he too is a free soul whose position is assured, and whose only law is his own heritage and aesthetic sense.”

cb361 said @ 9:20pm GMT on 23rd Aug But Lovecraft is missing.

happiest_sadist said @ 2:44am GMT on 24th Aug Meh, he ain't missing much.

maryyugo said @ 9:50pm GMT on 23rd Aug Way too anthropomorphic. Reality: cats are solitary hunters, dogs evolved to live in packs. Dogs in the wild die if they don't cooperate, respect the pecking order, and generally behave like the pack animals that they are who care about whether they are accepted by the pack or not. Cats can be aloof because they hunt alone and don't depend on other cats for food or safety. It's really that simple. An entirely different evolutionary course defines what appears to people as if it were a human personality. It's not.

snowfox said @ 10:00pm GMT on 23rd Aug Cats who live in feral colonies do, however, share food with eachother.

rangerx said @ 2:08am GMT on 24th Aug Such as their deceased cat hoarder owner.....

dreamingzephyr said @ 12:42pm GMT on 24th Aug [Score:1 Insightful] Dog/cat personalities may not be human personalities, but most people forget that human personalities are animal personalities.

Robert E. Howard said @ 1:20am GMT on 24th Aug [Score:1 Underrated] Inferior to the dog the cat is, nevertheless, more like human beings than is the former. For he is vain yet servile, greedy yet fastidious, lazy, lustful and selfish. That last characteristic is, indeed, the dominant feline trait. He is monumentally selfish. In his self love he is brazen, candid and unashamed. Giving nothing in return, he demands everything--he demands it in a raspy, hungry, whining squall that seems to tremble with self-pity, and accuse the world at large of perfidy and broken contract. His eyes are suspicious and avaricious, the eyes of a miser. His manner is at once arrogant and debased. He arches his back and rubs himself against humanity's leg, dirging a doleful plea, while his eyes glare threats and his claws slide convulsively in and out of their padded sheaths. He is inordinate in his demands, and he gives no thanks for bounty. His only religion is an unfaltering belief in the divine rights of cats. The dog exists only for man, man exists only for cats. The introverted feline conceives himself to be ever the center of the universe. In his narrow skull there is no room for the finer feelings. Pull a drowning kitten out of the gutter and provide him with a soft cushion to sleep upon, and cream as often as he desires. Shelter, pamper and coddle him all his useless and self-centered life. What will he give you in return? He will allow you to stroke his fur; he will bestow upon you a condescending purr, after the manner of one conferring a great favor. There the evidences of gratitude end. Your house may burn over your head, thugs may break in, rape your wife, knock Uncle Theobald in the head, and string you up by your thumbs to make you reveal the whereabouts of your hoarded wealth. The average dog would die in the defense even of Uncle Theobald. But your fat and pampered feline will look on without interest; he will make no exertions in your behalf, and after the fray, will, likely as not, make a hearty meal off your unprotected corpse.

arrowhen said @ 10:06pm GMT on 23rd Aug [Score:1 Insightful] Cats act like we wish we could; dogs act like we wish others would.

fz75 said @ 4:06am GMT on 24th Aug someone who can stand my slipper flying to them aiming their asses?

sanepride said @ 4:52pm GMT on 23rd Aug [Score:1 Good] Cats, quite frankly, can be jerks.

spazm said @ 5:40pm GMT on 23rd Aug [Score:3 WTF] Even to crocodiles.

sanepride said @ 5:45pm GMT on 23rd Aug That might be the luckiest cat ever.

spazm said @ 8:42pm GMT on 23rd Aug Yep. You only live nine times...

cb361 said @ 10:17pm GMT on 23rd Aug Wallraker.

mechanical contrivance said @ 12:35am GMT on 24th Aug Hairball

mky said @ 12:59am GMT on 24th Aug The Man with the Golden Retriever.

sanepride said @ 2:01am GMT on 24th Aug Octopussy. That was an easy one.

lalanda said @ 4:52am GMT on 24th Aug And no-one was worried for the cat?!

Milkman666 said @ 10:56am GMT on 24th Aug Well one person apparently asked what the cats end game was.

mrcucumber said @ 1:44pm GMT on 24th Aug [Score:1 Insightful] And dogs can't? Incessant barking, humping your leg, constant need for attention when you go to the house where they reside. Always the topic of conversation, center of attention. Puking on your $4000 carpet, peeing on your doorstep so your apartment building entrance smells like a kennel, tearing up your shoes and property. Nah, dogs are angels.

spazm said @ 2:44pm GMT on 24th Aug At least dogs are capable of looking guilty at you, which completely makes up for that sort of stuff ;)

cb361 said @ 2:59pm GMT on 24th Aug Humans almost completely anthropomorphise dogs and cats. It just comes down to which anthropomorphisation you prefer. An entity which appears to be a dumb but well-meaning joe-six-pack, or one that appears to be a beautiful, easy-going serial killer.

quaint said @ 5:57pm GMT on 24th Aug I'll take beautiful over well-meaning any day.

Dimmesdale said @ 4:53pm GMT on 23rd Aug How many of these could be avoided by crating the dog when you leave or by closing your bedroom and bathroom doors?

sanepride said @ 5:02pm GMT on 23rd Aug Someone's looking at this from a waaaayyy to practical point of view.

lilmookieesquire said @ 5:15pm GMT on 23rd Aug If you want to treat the symptoms. Dog shaming fixes the cause!

lalanda said @ 4:53am GMT on 24th Aug I don't like crating dogs for convenience sake. Please don't try to tell me the dog is happier.

eIfish said @ 5:00pm GMT on 23rd Aug From these signs it appears that either a) dogs are a lot smarter than I gave them credit for or b) lots of people have been fucking dogs.

Cakkafracle said @ 5:18pm GMT on 23rd Aug You leap straight to beastiality? what's wrong with you...?

lilmookieesquire said @ 5:38pm GMT on 23rd Aug Or what's right with dogs. Ammirightere?

Naruki said @ 4:08am GMT on 24th Aug Not the Shar Peis, man. That's like humping your hairy grandmother.

sanepride said @ 6:42pm GMT on 23rd Aug Just fyi- The dogs didn't make the signs. Humans made the signs. To shame their dogs. Jeez, do I have to explain everything?

eIfish said @ 12:45am GMT on 24th Aug Yes. Their human mothers and fathers made the signs. Eww.

sanepride said @ 1:20am GMT on 24th Aug Close... their human mommies and daddies made the signs. Aww.

yasha said @ 5:23pm GMT on 23rd Aug [Score:3 Underrated] dogs are fine. dog owners are really starting to creep me out. does anybody else hate how dog owners talk about their dogs like they are human children? and like, expect you to show the same level of interest as you would in a human child? seeing people have their dogs call them "mommy and daddy" is just freaky. just as freaky as the fact that dog toys and baby toys are sometimes in the same aisle of the grocery store now.

lilmookieesquire said @ 5:37pm GMT on 23rd Aug Don't Go To Japan Dog strollers. Dog bakeries. Dog diapers. They are basically surrogate children. Cats on the other hand are like surrogate serial killers. That said, cats are good to reduce decease spreading vermin.

mechanical contrivance said @ 12:37am GMT on 24th Aug They bake dogs in Japan?

GordonGuano said @ 1:35am GMT on 24th Aug No, Korea.

Naruki said @ 4:00am GMT on 24th Aug Right, Japan eats them raw. Inusushi.

spazm said @ 9:19am GMT on 24th Aug Beats the hotdog.

mrcucumber said @ 1:36pm GMT on 24th Aug Absolutely. I don't mean to rain on this dog lovefest parade but.....I was involved in a project once that had to do with pet industry. In 2011, Total U.S. Pet Industry Expenditures were $50B. Custom jewelry, collars, furniture, custom furniture, organic food, frozen, pastries (cooked up by chefs), dog physiologists/therapists, travel boutiques, dog camps, luxury boarding, you name it. The pet industry targets owners the same way they would humans. Pets are a part of the family, period, regardless if they aren't human. It would make you puke, and the hypocrisy of some pet owners is astounding. In the same sentence they abhor human famine, poverty, but then go on to announce they just bought a gucci collar and organic food for their terrier, who sleeps in a $3000 bed. It's pathetic. I'm not anti-pets, but sometimes it's over the top. As long as there is a market to tap or take advantage of, silk booties for your lap dog are bound to surface.

sanepride said @ 5:38pm GMT on 23rd Aug Dogs are highly social and intuitive beings, easily able to integrate as a full family member. My wife and I, otherwise childless, regularly refer to ourselves as our dog's 'mommy' and 'daddy' (I know a good few cat owners who do the same thing btw). We find this to be a fairly comfortable role, but if you have indeed seen people who can actually 'have their dogs call them "mommy and daddy"', I gotta admit that would be freaky.

yasha said @ 8:08pm GMT on 23rd Aug [Score:1 Interesting] your dogs are full family members? so their desires, future and emotional fulfillment is at least as important to you as your wife's and your own? your dogs are developing complex moral and intellectual lives independent of you, that simultaneously astonishes with insight at how wonderful difference can be and yet still makes you cringe in pain at the variance from what you are and what you'd hoped and still beleive? some dogs!

snowfox said @ 8:37pm GMT on 23rd Aug [Score:5 Insightful] By those standards, many humans aren't family members either.

sanepride said @ 9:10pm GMT on 23rd Aug [Score:2 Underrated] Just one dog, and mostly yes.

feldenglas said @ 6:09pm GMT on 23rd Aug This. We live in the woods. My cat is an employee. The weather is going to start to get cold soon, and the first frost of September is usually his busiest night of the year.

underdog said @ 8:46pm GMT on 23rd Aug [Score:5 Funny] Your cat drives a snow plow?

Mr. Langosta said @ 6:48pm GMT on 23rd Aug Yes. And I hate that "pets" is now such a touchy topic of conversation that I've had to lump it in with religion and politics as another thing that can't be politely discussed. You wouldn't think so, but I can't mention my childhood dog without being asked about rescues, puppy mills, etc. It's like trying to talk about ribeyes with a vegetarian. People are assholes.

sanepride said @ 7:02pm GMT on 23rd Aug Or maybe it's just the people you're talking to are assholes.

Naruki said @ 4:02am GMT on 24th Aug Can't be. I talk to him all the... hey!

a.talisan said @ 11:51pm GMT on 23rd Aug This line was seriously delivered to me, "Don't use the word 'pet' it implies a slavery relationship. I prefer 'animal companion'."

happiest_sadist said @ 2:38am GMT on 24th Aug I had someone say almost exactly the same thing to me. I replied "I don't give a fractional fuck what you prefer, honestly." The best part was, that person stopped speaking to me entirely.

Naruki said @ 4:03am GMT on 24th Aug PETArds.

sanepride said @ 4:36am GMT on 24th Aug [Score:1 Informative] I was honestly concerned about the proper, least offensive terminology to use, so I asked my dog if she was OK with me referring to her as a 'pet', and me as her 'owner'. Based on her enthusiastic tail-wagging, I concluded it was OK.

snowfox said @ 5:32pm GMT on 24th Aug I can understand it. A lot of people treat pets like inanimate possessions that are easily replaced. I wouldn't call it slavery, but it is selfish butt-fuckery to be sure. I could see why people might want to change terminology to make it clear that a pet isn't some object you own, but a living thing you're supposed to love.

arrowhen said @ 12:02am GMT on 24th Aug Why would you try to talk about ribeyes with a vegetarian?

mky said @ 12:53am GMT on 24th Aug Something to put on his black eye after you punch him in the face for being a cunt?

Mr. Langosta said @ 1:18am GMT on 24th Aug Because all my similes must be literal.

arrowhen said @ 7:50pm GMT on 23rd Aug [Score:1 Underrated] I have two dogs and sixteen cats at the moment (we foster). Most people don't know this about me, because I don't tell them unless I think they'd be interested, just like I don't make them listen to gossip about my World of Warcraft guild, descriptions of my Minecraft creations, or trivia about early 80s post-punk bands. I guess I'm just polite that way. And yet no one ever wants to return the favor and stop telling me about the tediously "adorable" antics of their stupid kids. I do agree, though, that pet parents are creepy. Harry and Rebel aren't my substitute children, they're my packmates.

rangerx said @ 5:42pm GMT on 23rd Aug [Score:5 Funny]

Denver said @ 5:52pm GMT on 23rd Aug [Score:1 Insightful] I KNOW NOTHING

lilmookieesquire said @ 5:52pm GMT on 23rd Aug Maisie is just like "WTF dude, sure, blame me. Prick."

sanepride said @ 5:57pm GMT on 23rd Aug I still find this vid hilarious and heart-wrenching at the same time, even after a dozen viewings. Animal research indicates that when dogs act 'guilty', they're actually reacting to their owners' actions, not their own. Even dogs who did nothing wrong will demonstrate this behavior when confronted with an accusatory, admonishing tone. Of course, countless anecdotal accounts from dog owners dispute these findings.

lilmookieesquire said @ 5:45am GMT on 24th Aug [Score:1 Underrated] I think understanding cross cross species emotional traits (dogs do it better than apes in regards to humans) is quite complex and seems to me more difficult to do than just feeling shame. The difficulty, as I see it, isn't their ability to feel shame etc but our ability to measure/gauge it.

whowtfbbq said @ 2:28am GMT on 1st Sep I'm pretty sure I've seen dogs act guilty / sorry having done something particularly wrong even before being told off. Although I guess I might just be imagining things, or giving off subtle tells that I'm angry. Dogs certainly learn if they do certain "bad" things they get told off and/or punished, so maybe the "guilt" is them anticipating the telling off

drzapato said @ 8:39pm GMT on 23rd Aug I was privileged enough to catch a segment about this on CNN today. I let out that same groan that I give to half the crap they show on there these days. Maybe I'm just sick of my friends pasting pictures of their dogs all over facebook.

Dienes said @ 9:19pm GMT on 23rd Aug [Score:1 Funny] Verdict: Cat-shaming remains ineffective.

Dienes said @ 9:20pm GMT on 23rd Aug Fuck me I can't get the size right. Enjoy a giant-ass cat.

cb361 said @ 9:22pm GMT on 23rd Aug [Score:2 Funny] A giant ass-cat?

spazm said @ 9:30pm GMT on 23rd Aug With music coming out of its belly!

user420 said @ 9:40pm GMT on 23rd Aug This is quite possibly the stupidest thing I've ever seen. I seriously don't have the words to express the contempt I have for these people.

lilmookieesquire said @ 9:57pm GMT on 23rd Aug Then I take it you haven't seen cat shaming yet?

sanepride said @ 10:09pm GMT on 23rd Aug This post is a lot more controversial than I ever could have imagined.

cb361 said @ 10:14pm GMT on 23rd Aug [Score:2 Funny] Lucky you didn't post the one about whether we should circumcise our dogs.

sanepride said @ 10:25pm GMT on 23rd Aug Sure, but I'd expect that to raise some hackles. This is just cute pics of naughty dogs FFS. I can't help but pity the haters.

spazm said @ 11:13pm GMT on 23rd Aug Never mind the heaters, man.

user420 said @ 11:29pm GMT on 23rd Aug Call it hating if you want, but I have serious disdain for people who don't know how to raise animals. If you train a dog well you won't have a lot of these problems, and then to try and shame and guilt them instead is just... well like I said I don't have the words.

arrowhen said @ 12:04am GMT on 24th Aug [Score:1 Insightful] Did you even look at the goddamned site?

sanepride said @ 12:11am GMT on 24th Aug [Score:1 Underrated] Lighten up a bit there pal. Even the most well-behaved, highly disciplined dogs will get into a little trouble now and then. They are after all intelligent, inquisitive animals often with indelicate appetites and unfiltered enthusiasm. These are not 'problems', this is simply the nature of the beast. Nothing wrong with having a little fun over it. If the worst these dogs face is having a funny sign put next to them I'd say they're probably doing OK.

mrcucumber said @ 1:47pm GMT on 24th Aug Some people want/need control over everything. The slightest bit of chaos (like a dog not paying attention to you, or not following orders) is just not acceptable.

spazm said @ 12:40am GMT on 24th Aug [Score:1 Insightful] [...]to try and shame and guilt them instead is just... This has nothing to do with wether or not a dog was raised well. This is a site with pics of dogs that kind of have a sad face, a note next to it suggesting they've done something they shouldn't, in (and here's the keyword for tonight's show) good humor. No dog was harmed, no dog has suffered traumatic experiences "because they were put to shame and guilt" on the fucking internet, no dig will contemplate commiting suicide over it... it's not bloody Star Wars kid, it's pics of dogs ffs.

user420 said @ 1:20am GMT on 24th Aug If a dog is destroying property it was not trained well. There is nothing humorous about an owner doing w/e it is they have to do to make a dog look guilty like that just so they can post a stupid picture on the internet. If the dog did nothing wrong in the first place and they're doing just because then that's even worse.

arrowhen said @ 1:54am GMT on 24th Aug [Score:2 Insightful] You know dogs can't fucking read, right?

user420 said @ 4:30am GMT on 24th Aug [Score:1 Informative] You know you're completely missing the point, right?

lalanda said @ 5:53am GMT on 24th Aug [Score:1 Underrated] You mean the stupid point you made? The dogs aren't looking ashamed. We are interpreting the ones with those looks as "ashamed" (very few of them actually look that way in the pictures). My dog happily looks at me like that for no discernable reason whatsoever. It is cute. A well-trained dog doesn't do any of these things? Seriously? Well-trained dogs don't fart? Interesting. This is a website for people who love their dogs. Instead of beating them as punishment, they make a fun little sign and take a cute picture of their dog. Hooray for dog owners!

lalanda said @ 5:54am GMT on 24th Aug [Score:1 Funny] Uh...can we agree that farting = destroying property so it looks like I didn't misread what you said?

sanepride said @ 1:58am GMT on 24th Aug It's a bit of a debate about whether a dog can feel guilt, but I think any dog owner would agree that dogs definitely don't feel shame or embarrassment.

Naruki said @ 4:11am GMT on 24th Aug I think any dog owner would agree that dogs definitely don't feel shame or embarrassment Only if you define "dog owner" as "the few I've personally known who say that, and fuck the ones I know who say the opposite".

sanepride said @ 4:42am GMT on 24th Aug I'd certainly be interesting in hearing from any that disagree. I'd always assumed shame and embarrassment were uniquely human attributes.

lilmookieesquire said @ 5:42am GMT on 24th Aug It's hard to establish "shame" in lieu of communication but: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chimpanzee#Animal_research is interesting.

Naruki said @ 1:26am GMT on 25th Aug I had someone get extremely butthurt when I told him that his dog isn't human and that he should try to learn what _really_ motivates those behaviors the dog displays that the owner thought were human emotions.

mrcucumber said @ 1:57pm GMT on 24th Aug I don't know about that. I've done an informal study by looking at dogs straight in the eyes for what appears to be the entire time they are shitting. Yeah, they look away, and have that embarrassed "look." Even animals in the wild, in packs (like wolves) don't shit in front of their pack mates. Its also a position of vulnerability that most all animals experience - well, maybe not whales and a few others. I have an acquaintance that owns a bulldog, and he pampers her constantly. He wipes his dogs asshole after every shit. That dog doesn't feel embarrassment because it hasn't been socialized with other dogs where the natural state is to have a dirty asshole after shitting. Embarrassment while taking a crap, i would think, is a cross species sentiment. But then again, bonobos fuck openly and I'm sure a gorilla could give a fuck if it had to shit while his group is watching.

sanepride said @ 1:23am GMT on 24th Aug I'm guessing user420 doesn't really know much about dogs. Or people.

user420 said @ 1:29am GMT on 24th Aug I've grown up with pets all my life. Unfortunately, I also know how people can treat animals, and not everyone is all lovey dovey and caring towards them like you seem to think. If a dog is acting up like that and the owner is stupid enough to do something like this I can't imagine it's cared for very well at all.

sanepride said @ 1:55am GMT on 24th Aug [Score:1 Insightful] In that case you're just kind of dense. I think it's pretty clear that the people posting on this site really love their dogs and are more than willing to forgive their little transgressions with a laugh.

user420 said @ 4:50am GMT on 24th Aug Then you're naive. I think what's clear is that you and I have differing opinions on what is actually going on in these pictures. If they were a pictures of dogs looking guilty while standing in the middle of a mess they made then sure, that's kind of funny. Making a sign and then yelling at/threatening or whatever it is the owners did to invoke that kind of reaction from their pet, obviously well after the fact since they had time to make a fucking sign, so they can snap a picture to try and look clever on the internet is not. Dogs don't have a very good memory, so trying to discipline them at a later time does nothing but cause confusion for the animal and is quite counterproductive. A good pet owner would never do this.

lilmookieesquire said @ 5:47am GMT on 24th Aug I think the disagreement is on the time it takes for sign making and if the yelling occurred.

sanepride said @ 6:02am GMT on 24th Aug Despite user420's assumptions, there certainly is no indication that any of these animals were yelled at or punished in any way. My own inclination is to presume innocence (on the part of the owners). There is no particular 'reaction' in the pictures that indicates otherwise. I can get my dog to give a look like that just by talking to her. I'm not accusing anybody of anything, but I wonder if our friend's assumptions of abuse are based on some personal experience.

user420 said @ 7:14am GMT on 24th Aug I spelled it out for you about as clearly as I can, I don't know where you're getting this bullshit from. That would be like me assuming that because you can get your dog to look guilty just by talking to it like you said a little further down means you used to beat it and it's terrified of you. But I'm not going to do that because I'm not a retarded asshole.

spazm said @ 9:26am GMT on 24th Aug Are you sure?

user420 said @ 10:05am GMT on 24th Aug Ok fine, I'm not retarded though.

dreamingzephyr said @ 1:17pm GMT on 24th Aug Are you sure?

lalanda said @ 5:56am GMT on 24th Aug MOST OF THE DOGS IN THE PICTURES ARE ASLEEP! Although, maybe they were yelled asleep.

sanepride said @ 6:04am GMT on 24th Aug OMG maybe they are DEAD. Maybe the OWNERS KILLED THEM.

sanepride said @ 6:06am GMT on 24th Aug Sorry to say this, but you might be dumber than my dog. Bad user420, bad! Into the crate with you! We'll take a picture with a sign and post it later.

user420 said @ 7:01am GMT on 24th Aug So you have no rebuttal at all now, but you can't help but get that insult in there. But I'm the stupid one, of course. Stay classy. I remember when you used to be able to have discussions on here w/o it devolving into something like this.

Omegaphobic said @ 8:35am GMT on 24th Aug [Score:1 Insightful] No, I'm pretty sure that fuckwits have always been shouted down.

ckfahrenheit said @ 6:19am GMT on 24th Aug [Score:5 Funny]

thizzwardo said @ 6:37am GMT on 24th Aug Most of these dogs look quite pleased with themselves.

ComposerNate said @ 8:52am GMT on 29th Aug Why wouldn't a dog be able to feel guilt? Of all the emotions they are capable of, that seems an odd one to not credit them with. Generally agreed they bond, feel joy in pleasing leaders, being accepted by those leaders and a larger group. Why not negative feelings about displeasing leaders and concern for possibly losing their valued, beneficial bonds? I see no reason beyond religiously backed human-centric imaginings of specialness, believing we have souls and other animals do not and they had been created but god/s solely to please and serve us.

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