Sensible Erection | Penny Arcade's Kickstarter: $1M and they go ad-free for a year

Thursday, 12 July 2012

Penny Arcade's Kickstarter: $1M and they go ad-free for a year

quote [ "The reality is that we can continue working for advertisers, but if we can, we'd rather work for you." ]

I have mixed feelings about this. On one hand, the fewer ads I have to ignore, the better. On the other, I never thought the ads were that invasive, given that I only check in every other week or so. And then there's the hand that clenches into a fist every time Gabe opens his mouth.

New ways to support entrepreneurship are cool and all, but Penny Arcade is practically Neolithic in Internet time. It doesn't really seem to support the spirit of Kickstarter to enhance an established business, imo. Still, there are obviously people willing to shell out for it. Are they enabling a bad practice? I dunno, so I'm soliciting opinions.

Marked NSFW due to a certain fruit-violating mascot and cheesecake in extended.

Kate Upton in a wet T-shirt: I understand some of you like this sort of thing.
http://www.idontlikeyouinthatway.com/pictures/20120711/Kate%20Upton%20Topless/kate-upton-outtake-01.html

[games] [by GordonGuano@2:54pmGMT] [+10 Interesting]

Comments

DuncmanG said @ 3:00pm GMT on 12th Jul
I can understand wanting to go ad free, but do they really make 1 million dollars off of their ads every year? That seems like a *lot*.

cb361 said @ 3:06pm GMT on 12th Jul
Skipping ads is theft. They're trying to involve you in a million dollar heist.

KingPellinore said @ 3:17pm GMT on 12th Jul
Probably not. If they made more than $1,000,000, there'd be no incentive to switch. It's probably an arbitrary number they came up with.

chold_numa said @ 11:40pm GMT on 12th Jul
Money is money. And money now is better than money later, especially if you don't know how much, and how much later. If they were really genuine about this, they'd open the books on the advertising revenue on the site.

This is probably an experiment of sorts. Revenue from online advertising is declining is my guess. If they can move to a semi subscription model, it will be more sustainable in the long run. That said, good luck to them. I stopped reading regularly when they started plugging products directly in the strip.

DarkShadowRavenDragonGrrl69 said @ 1:55am GMT on 13th Jul
You know, PA is much more than just two dudes doing a webcomic about videogames. It's a business. They have three people taking care of finances, merchandise, etc. Pretty fucking sure they were involved here.

CapnSilver said @ 2:03am GMT on 13th Jul
If there were financial people involved then this definitely is an arbitrary number

dreamingzephyr said @ 4:30pm GMT on 12th Jul [Score:1 Informative]
"Some people have asked if the KS amount is really how much we make in advertising each year. Advertising revenue changes from year to year but the truth is that this figure is significantly less than we generally make."

Supreme_Coconut said @ 3:25pm GMT on 12th Jul [Score:4]
Mmm... Kate Upton

Cakkafracle said @ 7:44pm GMT on 12th Jul [Score:-1]
what a fat cow

Cakkafracle said @ 4:25am GMT on 13th Jul
oh come on it was a reference joke to that article about the pro anorexia group calling her fat

sheesh!

Barnabas_Truman said @ 5:02am GMT on 13th Jul [Score:-3]
Too soon?

cb361 said @ 6:37am GMT on 13th Jul [Score:-3]
Too fat.

Supreme_Coconut said @ 11:11pm GMT on 13th Jul
I got it. Hence the upmod.
But yeah, she's totally fat.
In all the right places.

Transfer said @ 4:14am GMT on 14th Jul
Upton girl, she's been living in her white bread world...

Transfer said @ 3:29pm GMT on 12th Jul [Score:1 Underrated]
I think they're getting a little greedy here. But whatever I'm not donating and I only catch up on their posts like every 3 months or so, so it doesn't effect me. I'm still not quite over this strip either:
http://penny-arcade.com/comic/2012/05/14
The extreme irony of Tycho calling another writer "smug" is just beyond belief.
http://www.penny-arcade.com/2012/05/14/the-verge

snowfox said @ 8:54pm GMT on 12th Jul
I still hate PVP more. PA seems to have gotten worse ever since they started working with Kurtz. I pray they don't add the CTRL-Alt-Del guy...

spite48 said @ 9:10pm GMT on 12th Jul
Interesting. I'm surprised. Why don't you folks like these people?

snowfox said @ 11:46pm GMT on 12th Jul [Score:2 Insightful]
I have no idea why other people don't like him, but here's my reason:

I don't like Kurtz's comic (won't get into a long critique as to why) and I tend to dislike his opinions of the industry, many of which he should not be publishing unless he wants to alienate people who otherwise might have done business with him. He loses my business respect for that crap. He's among a group of web comics publishers who basically take the stance of: "I'm not invited to play? Oh, well it was a stupid game and I never really wanted to play with you anyway."

I have nothing against web comics. I think web distribution is the future and print will largely die out due to poor cost effectiveness and inability to compete with other entertainment on offer. But I don't think it's something to be snotty about. The creators who are snobs about it are often like that because they feel the traditional industry has jilted them and they want to claim some kind of high-ground to recover their wounded self-esteem. I just don't have respect for that.

Most importantly -- and this is just a weird personal peeve -- fart jokes. I just can't respect a writer who goes for the least offensive form of low-brow comedy. It shows an amazing lack of moxie, an unwillingness to commit to the chance that someone might be offended by their already tasteless humor. If they're going to go that route, they need to skip the farts and get daring -- give me a joke a 5-year-old wouldn't write and then giggle at hysterically.

assbastard said @ 12:14am GMT on 13th Jul [Score:1 Funny]
I wholeheartedly agree with everything you just said. Kurtz is a slavering jackass of a spoiled child in terms of his opinions on print publishing, and it's sad that he's practically invincible now that Tycho and Gabe have become friends with him.

snowfox said @ 4:27am GMT on 13th Jul
Your phrasing makes me laugh. Kudos.

assbastard said @ 9:54am GMT on 13th Jul
I aim to please.

And then I hand them a towel.

EPT said @ 4:06am GMT on 13th Jul
I appreciate the subsidiary stuff they do, but to be frank, their comic strip is just half-arsed crap. Occasionally there's a good one, but that's just the shotgun effect speaking.

aliron said @ 8:50am GMT on 13th Jul
I feel the same way, but the occasional good ones make up for it because it doesn't take me much time to read the comic.

Dienes said @ 6:31pm GMT on 13th Jul
Don't work about them joining forces with CAD creator Tim Buckley. They hate him. In the old podcasts they consistently mocked him and called him an 'art criminal.' (And rightly so IMHO.) In fact, the character Franzibald is their iteration of Buckley.

My boyfriend is at ComiCon and they signed a copy of the CAD comic "Loss" for me. It is the greatest thing I possess.

Obviously, despite a few mis-steps on PAs part, I have a lot of respect and admiration for those guys.

EPT said @ 1:32am GMT on 14th Jul
CAD lost its way a looong time ago. I kept reading for a long time because honestly, I like the way he draws women's hips. But whenever I go to see if he has found the funny again, I'm left scratching my head as to how he manages to support himself. I've also noticed that he's run into the problem of overdeveloping his art now.

gunthar said @ 3:31pm GMT on 12th Jul [Score:3 Underrated]
I don't like penny arcade, but thx u 4 kate upton

Chop-Logik said @ 5:12am GMT on 13th Jul [Score:2]

smoug said @ 3:35pm GMT on 12th Jul
It's a bit unusual, in that most sites that want to go ad free generally offer some kind of membership program or something along those lines.

If people want to make that investment though, I don't see why they shouldn't be allowed to.

GordonGuano said @ 3:56pm GMT on 12th Jul [Score:2]
Time was, you could donate to Kickstarter and get a new Wasteland game for your trouble. Now you get...a slightly less cluttered page? For a year? But as you say, it's their money.

wottan said @ 3:45pm GMT on 12th Jul [Score:4 Insightful]
The biggest deal I heard of made about this is that Kickstarter is meant for specific projects, not just to cover your costs for a year. But I havent read into it enough to know if thats truly against Kickstarter policy. Did seem a bit exorbitant to me, but I suppose it's possible thats equivalent to their ad revenue.

foobar said @ 4:18pm GMT on 12th Jul
They fund a lot of indie video, and even a gaming columnist now. It's not that much money.

radioelectric said @ 8:05pm GMT on 13th Jul
Except they run the video with external partners and that is not included in this kickstarter.

mrcucumber said @ 4:00pm GMT on 12th Jul
This always confuses me.

The Penny Arcade I know and remember was the fag hag that hung around Andy Warhol. I've seen her performance artist show numerous times(in the early 90's - had a friend who was friends with her - yes he is gay) so I'm always thrown for a loop when I see this reference.

And I have no idea who Kate Upton is, but I sure wish I did - intimately.

EPT said @ 4:09am GMT on 13th Jul
I had the same issue, and remember getting thoroughly confused when speaking in text chat with some of the webcomic lovers. They were talking about how they loved Penny Arcade, to which I said she has her moments. They replied 'penny arcade is a comic'... which was the confusing part, because she is a comic, being another term for comedian.

Misanthrope said @ 4:04pm GMT on 12th Jul
So essentially trying to to be a reader-donations funded comic that asks for all it's donations upfront?

atter_cob said @ 4:05pm GMT on 12th Jul
Kickstarter is for whatever people what to use it for. As long as KS get's it 5% (or whatever) cut and it's legal, they are probably happy.

If people want to give PA cash to go add free, they that's up to the people that do it. I personally don't give a shit because at least PA only runs ads for reasonably good games that I might want to play.

Also, I mostly ignore the nonsensical rants they post and just enjoy the comics. The only time I read the rants are when the comic is about something I don't know and then I read the rant to find out what they are on about.

GordonGuano said @ 4:12pm GMT on 12th Jul
Apparently they're holding an Automata story hostage pending the success of this. I'd like to see it, but I'd rather buy a T-shirt and have something to show for my support. Not to mention giving PA advertising, in a cruel twist of fate.

dreamingzephyr said @ 4:23pm GMT on 12th Jul [Score:1 Informative]
They spend a great deal of time, currently, creating works for game companies.

This Kickstarter will allow them to focus that time on side projects they're passionate about like Automata instead of another Dragon Age or Zelda story posted on those companies' webpages.

dreamingzephyr said @ 4:28pm GMT on 12th Jul
"Something that might not have been clear is that when we say no advertising that also means no PA Presents. I love working on comics for publishers but we spend a huge chunk of time every year on stuff that isn’t ours. Working on things like comics to promote games and pre-sell bonuses fill in all the cracks between our Mon, Wed, Fri strips. I’ve been honored to work with some of these properties but I’d love to devote that time to our own projects. I feel like we have all these cool worlds that we’re neglecting because we just don’t have the time. This KS would change all that."

GordonGuano said @ 5:27pm GMT on 12th Jul
That is a wrinkle I hadn't considered. Personally I'd rather they kept one-off projects like that and got rid of PA TV. (Seriously, Gabe's teeth bear the same relation to geometry as the sunken ruins of R'lyeh.) But I don't claim to be representative of the fandom, nor do I expect them to try and please everyone.

aliron said @ 5:38pm GMT on 12th Jul
I love PATV.

GordonGuano said @ 5:40pm GMT on 12th Jul
You aren't Cthulhu, by any chance?

DarkShadowRavenDragonGrrl69 said @ 1:59am GMT on 13th Jul
I'm more interested in PATV nowadays than the actual strips and Gabe posts.

DarkShadowRavenDragonGrrl69 said @ 3:14am GMT on 13th Jul
Tycho*

dreamingzephyr said @ 3:02pm GMT on 13th Jul [Score:1 Underrated]
If it weren't for PATV, I wouldn't have been able to witness Mike's palpable, homophobic discomfort when Jerry came out to him as bi.

<3 Tycho

GordonGuano said @ 3:25pm GMT on 13th Jul
Episode, please? I would risk shattering my sanity against the cyclopean calciferous edifices of Gabe's teeth to see that.

Oh, and thanks for recommending Happy Endings way back when.

aliron said @ 3:59pm GMT on 13th Jul [Score:1 Underrated]
You need help. They're just teeth.

It was this ep if I remember correctly.

azazel said @ 4:32am GMT on 14th Jul
Wow, that is one big homophobe. So who's who, is the guy freaking out the artist?

GordonGuano said @ 7:04am GMT on 14th Jul [Score:1 Insightful]
Tycho (Jerry) is the artist, his medium is words. Gabe (Mike) draws pretty pictures.

dreamingzephyr said @ 1:32am GMT on 14th Jul
I'm glad you enjoyed it!

DrowJones said @ 5:01pm GMT on 12th Jul
They're doing the whole Kickstarter thing wrong. The way they should do it would be to ask for funding for that Automata comic or whatever, not the way they're doing it right now. Then it would be at least a proper project like Kickstarter projects should be.

azazel said @ 4:10pm GMT on 12th Jul
I thought they were super rich? If they wanted to go ad free they could probably do it without too much of a loss, given that they have other venues of income. Additionally, does this mean that they won't even talk about games in their rants?

I could see myself paying money to shut them up. But if they'll still write rants then the deal's off.

azazel said @ 4:20pm GMT on 12th Jul
Also: AdBlock.

dreamingzephyr said @ 4:30pm GMT on 12th Jul
What? Jerry is one of my favorite writers! You want to pay money to have him stop writing posts instead of just not reading them?

azazel said @ 5:36pm GMT on 12th Jul
It was mostly a tongue-in-cheek comment, but I don't think he's an amazing writer by any means. He can produce good writing, but usually doesn't.*

*I have not played the games, I'm judging solely on the texts that show up on the site and in the comics. Maybe his amazing writing skills show up in the games a lot more, but as far as ranting goes I've read better elsewhere.

RhesusMonkey said @ 1:34pm GMT on 13th Jul
I played both of the games they produced, and goddamnit I've been waiting for Episode 3 (and probably 4) for like three years now. KS that, and I'm game. Hell, make it a know stretch goal, and I'm game. I personally love his writing and the animation style has evolved and refined to a specific style, much like how you can tell that PPG / Samurai Jack / FOP are all done by the same artist (or at least, the same style). I can tell Gabe's style looking at the material they produce for other titles, like the Dragons Age stuff.

I read their strip weekly; I read Trenches weekly, or the day it is published. I like that Trenches is a linear storyline, and gives me insight to an industry I don't participate in.
I also read the contributed stories of Game-Tester-Horror with much Schadenfreude, and it helps me stay sane in an otherwise not-sane job.

Given that I like Trenches, I expect that I would like other threaded titles, and of what they produced before, Automata IMO is better than Lookouts, but they represent different styles of art. I similarly like Dresden Codak and their work, and I see that they also have a KS going on for basically a book to be published. I would just like them to finish the goddamned story they've been writing for the last two years. TAKE MY MONEY!

I have not been to PAX; I have not donated to Child's Play; I don't watch PATV. I do marvel at the ability of these two dudes to affect change in the world around them, and to take the entrepreneurial spirit of both a) we can make stuff happen via our soapbox that is good and b) we can do better what industry is failing at now.

So yeah, I will probably get behind this KS for PA, because generally I do like the work they do, and I want them to (continue to?) succeed.

bruceski said @ 2:15pm GMT on 13th Jul [Score:1 Informative]
Rain Slick 3 is out. It's not bad in its way.

RhesusMonkey said @ 1:51pm GMT on 14th Jul
And just like that, my Saturday activities are set!

aliron said @ 4:14pm GMT on 12th Jul
Kate Upton kinda looks like a young Anna Nicole Smith...moreso than young Anna Nicole Smith does.

aliron said @ 4:15pm GMT on 12th Jul
That came out all wrong.

Kate Upton kinda looks like a young Anna Nicole Smith...moreso than Anna Nicole Smith did when she was young.

bruceski said @ 4:42pm GMT on 12th Jul
PA has ads? They've done a good job of making them unobtrusive.

An interesting quirk of site design, actually; PvP's new site took design cues from PA but feels a lot busier and more obscuring of the comic itself. Even with PA's focus on news posts and additional podcasts and such I still prefer sites that get the comic front and center, though.

spazm said @ 5:20pm GMT on 12th Jul
+1 Kate Upmod

5thEarth said @ 5:31pm GMT on 12th Jul
Honestly, I'm surprised they think they can run on only $1M a year. PA is a pretty big enterprise.

That said, PA is one of the few websites that serves ads I actually click on from time to time. I'd actually be sort of sad to see them go.

Asscheeks Akimbo said @ 6:07pm GMT on 12th Jul
How about 1 million and they go away for a year. That seems fair.

otherground said @ 6:09pm GMT on 12th Jul
+1 for the fruit fucker thumb

Jaxon said @ 7:30pm GMT on 12th Jul [Score:3 Underrated]
The headline of the post is rather misleading.

Penny Arcade brings in a lot more than $1 million in revenue a year. The $250k Kickstarter goal removes the main ad on the front page. The $1 million goal means that anything that they do for money for other people stops. No ads on the page, no projects for other games (previews and collector edition stuffs). These take up more of their time than the actual comic.

The Automata and Lookout comics aren't being "Held hostage" there is just no time to do them with their current revenue stream.

I think it's a fantastic idea. There is a lot of talent in those two guys and any more content they can put out is fine with me. I donated when it was their only income and I plan on pledging to this Kickstarter.

On the other hand the only ads they've ever run are ones that ones that get vetted by the PA people. They don't show just anything and they are quite well done.

GordonGuano said @ 7:40pm GMT on 12th Jul
But what's your take on Kate Upton pokies?

Barnabas_Truman said @ 8:02pm GMT on 12th Jul
This is a fantastic idea and I'm hoping that its success leads to imitators. Back in the early days I always thought Scott McCloud's "micro-payments" idea had a lot of promise, and was disappointed to see it shoved to the wayside as advertising became the dominant revenue stream of The New Internet.

I ran the numbers once and found that if Facebook, for example, charged each of its users something like 20 cents a month, they'd make as much money from that as they do now on advertising. I'd be happy to pay 20 cents a month for an ad-free Facebook.

GordonGuano said @ 8:31pm GMT on 12th Jul
To make micro-payments feasible though, you have to have credit card vendors willing to not gouge clients. Right now being able to accept electronic payment via cards can be a big hurdle for small businesses.

Barnabas_Truman said @ 9:28pm GMT on 12th Jul
That's a major obstacle, yeah. I'm wondering if the ability to do micro-business with customers en masse via e.g. Kickstarter may be a game-changer in that regard.

LeavemeAlone said @ 11:15pm GMT on 12th Jul
But Kickstarter isn't really micro-transactions, but an alternative method of funding. It allows those who wish to purchase a product or service before the product or service is made, allowing for the holders of intellectual property to raise capital while placing the risk on consumers rather than investors.

Microtransactions are more of an idea that people will be able to sell content at low prices online such that consumers and producers have a wider price range to play with. However, below a certain price, it just seems easier and cheaper to add advertising and call it a day.

Barnabas_Truman said @ 11:32pm GMT on 12th Jul
True. I suppose ultimately there's no reason for me to complain, since I can just fire up AdBlock and get content for free.

michaelofoz said @ 8:06pm GMT on 12th Jul
Wait, you have three hands?

GordonGuano said @ 8:21pm GMT on 12th Jul
Well, no. Three legs, hur hur hur.

spite48 said @ 9:14pm GMT on 12th Jul
I'm actually going to PAX for the first time this year. If anyone wants to make an SE patch, I will wear it, and then deny knowing any of you, or having any knowledge of this website when confronted.

foobar said @ 11:39pm GMT on 12th Jul [Score:1 Funny]
Who knows how to sew a futinari?

eggboy said @ 11:59pm GMT on 12th Jul
In other related news, Steam summer sale has started. So get out your wallets and buy games you maybe wanna play later maybe for cheap.

azazel said @ 4:34am GMT on 13th Jul
Crusader Kings 2 for 10 bucks? Those who haven't gotten it already should do so as soon as possible.

bltrocker said @ 5:28am GMT on 13th Jul
Is it that good? I've never actually played any empire building type games. Would this be a good place to start? Seems a little more accessible than other titles.

bathoz said @ 9:15am GMT on 13th Jul
CK2 is not so much a empire builder as a Game of Thrones simulator. It's all about trying to keep your power hungry cousin satisfied, find a suitable match for your useless daughters and assassinating your heir so all the hard work you put into forging this kingdom isn't wasted when that sadistic retard inherits the throne.

swiggy said @ 9:59am GMT on 13th Jul
i'm okay with this.

cb361 said @ 6:39am GMT on 13th Jul
Shit. I still haven't played the games I bought at Christmas. 2010/11

Barnabas_Truman said @ 7:31am GMT on 13th Jul
I'm still catching up on all the Humble Bundle stuff.

RhesusMonkey said @ 1:41pm GMT on 13th Jul
I only on Consoles, but have about 8 games for PS3 and Wii that I have yet to even take out of plastic.

Including: Batman AC (never finished AA either); ME3 (working through ME2); FF13-2; latest Zelda (which I need to buy a new wiimote for, or the plug-in module), and some other shit. I didn't buy Skyrim, but have been waiting to get that. Have also been looking for Kingdoms of Amalur (maybe I should have just bought that when new, they wouldn't have gone titsup).

There are also a number of games that I have opened but not played, or played but not very far (like "Wet", which I couldn't get out of the first scene).

Why do I have more money than time? damnit.

Barnabas_Truman said @ 6:05pm GMT on 13th Jul
I only game on my desktop computer, but I do enjoy booting up the NES emulator now and then.

azazel said @ 4:35am GMT on 14th Jul
Here's a review of Diablo 3 you might enjoy.

Mr. Langosta said @ 6:56am GMT on 13th Jul
Who reads this shit? Remember Perry Bible Fellowship? That was a million dollar comic.

Barnabas_Truman said @ 7:32am GMT on 13th Jul [Score:1 Interesting]
I'd like to see something similar for NetHack. If the fans raise a million bucks, the DevTeam takes time off their day jobs and makes a new version.

hackiavelli said @ 9:55am GMT on 13th Jul

lilmookieesquire said @ 4:47pm GMT on 13th Jul
The uploader has not made this video available in [Canada].

I knew Canadian money was no good!

Chop-Logik said @ 9:04pm GMT on 13th Jul
Totally useless. I'll take it off your hands, for a reasonable fee.

lilmookieesquire said @ 9:55pm GMT on 13th Jul
You are a good man Mr. Chop.

SourSadnessBear said @ 7:14pm GMT on 13th Jul [Score:1 Interesting]
I'm generally in the "If they want, to more power to them" camp. Not something I'm giving my money to, but I love the entire PA brand except for The Trenches and Lookouts and would love for them to have time to expand it.

That said, I do have one complaint in how they're handling this. The way they've arranged the funding and reach targets seems manipulative. In a very big way, this kickstarter is billed as a motion to remove all ads from the PA site, a goal that some small part of me would like to pay for. However, it's funded (and thus they get all the pledged money, if I'm interpreting kickstarter correctly) if they raise enough to remove one lousy banner ad. I don't care about that one ad, and don't want to fork over even pocket change for it. In that sense, they're drawing in their fans' money in pursuit of a lofty goal, and taking much of it even if they fail for almost no return. Great business practice, terrible for the fans.

kichijoii said @ 10:58am GMT on 14th Jul
Funny thing is, Kate Upton's breasts are EXACTLY as I imagined them to be, down to the size and color of the areolas. So actually seeing them is somewhat unspectacular. Maybe I have seen too many breasts in my lifetime?

cb361 said @ 11:07am GMT on 14th Jul [Score:1 Insightful]
When a man is tied of breasts, he's tired of life.