Thursday, 1 March 2012

PayPal Strong-Arms Indie Ebook Publishers Over Erotic Content

quote [ On Saturday February 18, PayPal began threatening indie book publishers and distributors with immediate deactivation of the businesses’ accounts if they did not remove books containing certain sexual themes - namely, specific sexual fantasies that PayPal does not approve of. ]

Fuck Paypal. Again and again. Fuck Paypal.

And right after Felicia Day's youtube channel introduced me to the Vaginal Fantasy genre.
[literature] [by NickelJoe@1:12amGMT] [+10 WTF]

Comments

MachPi said @ 1:23am GMT on 1st Mar [Score:1 Underrated]
If Paypal has become so monolithic that it's basically a utility, this sort of overreach needs to be legislated away. If they aren't (and they would legally argue they aren't, of course), then it's a shitty business that needs to be steamrollered in the open market.

Personally, I use them, but barely. And I could easily get away with not using them at all. But if I'm now a marginal case in that respect and these people have a stranglehold on...something, internet commerce, whatever... then they need to be crushed.
a.talisan said @ 4:29pm GMT on 1st Mar
I'd gladly switch to a less evil company for the same sort of service if there was one.
spite48 said @ 1:25am GMT on 1st Mar [Score:3 Funny]
Fuck them non-consensually with a shapeshifting incest whip.
DuncmanG said @ 4:24am GMT on 1st Mar
Rape isn't funny.

So I modded this +1 Insightful to balance out the +1 Funny.
mechanical contrivance said @ 1:45am GMT on 1st Mar
Part of the reason given by the banks Paypal works with is that, apparently, buyers of erotic items have a higher rate of chargebacks than other buyers. If true, than the reason for all this is probably more financial than moral.

I've only used Paypal once, to buy the Louis CK video.
ENZ said @ 1:55am GMT on 1st Mar [Score:1 Underrated]
Yeah, except PayPal has a history of fucking with the service of it's clients for political transgressions.
midden said @ 2:20am GMT on 1st Mar [Score:2 Informative]
From the article: "when a customer submits a refund request, the merchant is the one that issues the refund - and it’s the merchant that has to PayPal return fees for the refund."
¿ said @ 7:02am GMT on 1st Mar
Those are for refunds, which are completely different from chargebacks.
Chargebacks are handled primarily by the CC company and on their terms where Paypal will dispute the chargeback on the seller's behalf. They'll pull funds from Paypal which will then pull / freeze funds from the seller.
High chargeback-to-transaction ratios can incur significant fees and penalties. In some cases, outright bans by the credit card companies themselves.

Wendy Sullivan Blue seems to be glossing over the difficulty of CC processing for high fraud potential sites. They'd probably have to drop accepting American Express for any transactions, for example. And it's not as simple as a rate hike.
Most of the adult site CC processors seem to charge > 14% along w/ other fees (I think CCBill charges ~$750 just to sign up) vs Paypal's $0.30 + 2.9% per transaction. They'd probably have to expand significantly just for fraud alone, and to be honest, they're kinda shitty about that already.
Paypal's a shady, greedy, fucking company, but this isn't something they can just willfully & easily expand into when it was Visa that pretty much stopped them from doing CC processing for adult material back in 2003.

Paypal has had a stipulation against use in terms of digital distribution of pornographic material for a few years, since 2009 or 2007 I think. They don't have a problem w/ physical goods; there are a variety of adult DVD sites or toy stores that do accept Paypal as payment. But e-books fall under that digital goods portion.

"Digital Goods – PayPal prohibits all account holders from buying or selling sexually oriented digital goods, including downloadable pictures or videos, subscriptions to websites, or other content delivered through a digital medium. "

TL;DR Chargeback != Refund. Rambling wall o' text.
eIfish said @ 10:00am GMT on 1st Mar
Stamp.

It's well-known that Paypal doesn't do porn, and even if you didn't know, it's in the TOS.

Yet they get to be all "we didn't see this coming" and "help help I'm being repressed".
scojam said @ 2:55pm GMT on 1st Mar
It is possible too that Paypal is required to leave an interest free deposit with their credit card processor equal to 6 months chargeback experience.
RedRiverRat said @ 1:57am GMT on 1st Mar
Never will, never have used PayPal. Fuck those guys.
Fwee said @ 2:05am GMT on 1st Mar [Score:1 Interesting]
Sorry to derail the conversation, but uh, is the whole 'Sensible Erection' - 'Project Mayhem' - 'Posse of Asshats' animation thing new or old and something I've never realised before?
Excited Corpse said @ 2:17am GMT on 1st Mar
i think its new? maybe?
Ankylosaur said @ 2:19am GMT on 1st Mar [Score:3]
It's been there since the beginning. Someone keeps adding javascript to their posts to deactivate it.
Jaxon said @ 2:25am GMT on 1st Mar
FREE MARKET!!

WHOOOOOOO!!!!!
chold_numa said @ 2:27am GMT on 1st Mar [Score:2]
Ah, the Thought Police. Brought to us by private industry and not the government (which would at least be accountable in some small way) as we all feared.
midden said @ 2:28am GMT on 1st Mar [Score:1 Underrated]
I've been using Paypall for a few years for the rare customer who chooses to pay by credit card instead of check, or for government agencies. It's usually only a few times a year, but I'm still stuck paying PayPal $30 a month to have an account, on top of the cut they take for each transaction.

Can anyone recommend an alternative for a small business like mine? When I opened this account with PayPal a few years ago, it sucked, but was still the best option I could find. Thanks.
caretaker said @ 6:17am GMT on 1st Mar
Google Checkout?
loomspace said @ 4:13pm GMT on 1st Mar
I use First Data, as recommended to me by my small local bank. Set up a virtual terminal, there are monthly no- transaction fee that can be avoided by a small charge to yourself etc. They take a minor cut, as all services will. Google checkout was not an option for me as I also do business with the government ( will not do PayPal or Google)i
Jewbacchus said @ 2:30am GMT on 1st Mar [Score:-5 Overrated]
lilmookieesquire said @ 2:37am GMT on 1st Mar [Score:1 Funny]
-1 not long enough.
Supreme_Coconut said @ 3:16am GMT on 1st Mar
Is that what she said?
blacksun said @ 2:30am GMT on 1st Mar
Hey can we fuck GoDaddy too while we're at it?
DuncmanG said @ 4:27am GMT on 1st Mar
Only the girls.
soulecho said @ 4:42am GMT on 1st Mar
Or the non-hetero guys.
theolypse said @ 11:11am GMT on 1st Mar
Whom will the het girls fuck?
Roulette1337 said @ 2:31am GMT on 1st Mar [Score:1 Interesting]
Was the sensible erection logo on the main page always animated? Changing from Sensible Erection to Project Mayhem to Posse of Asshats?
Jaxon said @ 2:32am GMT on 1st Mar
I must be the only person that uses this
MachPi said @ 2:56am GMT on 1st Mar [Score:2]
The double-column view? What are you, ON DRUGS?
pleaides said @ 8:29am GMT on 1st Mar
You're not alone.
blacksun said @ 2:32am GMT on 1st Mar [Score:1 Insightful]
Most of us know this already, but it's well said here on the Young Turks. This is what happened last time when gas prices got up over $5.00 a gallon. It's not Obama. It's not terrorists. It's not because we don't drill all over. It's the goddam banks, Goldman Sachs, the Koch brothers and other loveable characters. The speculative oil trading market should be shut down. It that even possible?
sanepride said @ 3:27am GMT on 1st Mar [Score:3 Underrated]
Gas in the US should be at least $5/gallon. Fucking gas guzzling US drivers think it's their birthright to be able to consume as much cheap gas as they want. This is the problem and this is what invites speculation. We should be paying what they pay for gas in Europe, only it should be taxed to that price.
v0idmagus said @ 4:02am GMT on 1st Mar
I support this. Last time gas price jumped over $4/gal, much moneys were directed into Nuclear/Solar/Wind, and between then and now the government forced automakers to increase fuel efficiency on all cars. My wife's last car was a station wagon with a 4-cylinder engine, and it got 17mpg. The car she bought last year isn't a hybrid, but gets 35-40 mpg.
DuncmanG said @ 4:26am GMT on 1st Mar
When I was last in Europe about 5 years ago, gas was at the equivalent of $7-8/gallon. The fact that we here in the US were paying less than 30% of that was ridiculous. The price disparity isn't quite as high now, I don't think, but it's still nuts. I'm in full agreement, sanepride.
ComposerNate said @ 7:16am GMT on 1st Mar
Currently at around 1,53€ a liter for diesel, that's $7.71 a gallon.

For gasoline, it's more expensive, maybe 1,68€ a liter, so $8.47 a gallon?
cb361 said @ 7:27am GMT on 1st Mar
Around the same in the UK, although I just did a couple of weeks shopping in one go to qualify for a 15p/litre discount voucher from the supermarket. I'm not quite sure how that effects the global petrochemical industry.
ComposerNate said @ 8:10am GMT on 1st Mar
All of Europe is about the same price, UK/Ireland/Sweden/Denmark being the equivalent of 2-5 cents higher per liter than than Germany/France and Holland/Austria/Czech/Italy/Spain being a few cents less. In France and maybe Denmark/Italy I've found extra cheap fuel (~14 cents less per liter) being sold at outside automatic stations, no service or building for bathrooms or cigarettes/magazines to be sold, just credit card payment after pumping yourself next to a field.
pleaides said @ 8:31am GMT on 1st Mar [Score:1 Funny]
"...just credit card payment after pumping yourself next to a field."

Sound like an interesting evening Nate, tell us more.
cb361 said @ 2:32pm GMT on 1st Mar
Sounds like a brothel I came (not literally) across in Nevada, when I stopped for gas a few hundred miles east of Death Valley. The 'Cherry Thicket', or something like that. It had a closed, reinforced metal door and it was built like a fallout shelter. I've never seen a more uninviting place in my life.
theolypse said @ 7:48pm GMT on 1st Mar
I think you're swapping the literal and metaphoric uses, here.
oranges said @ 4:29am GMT on 1st Mar
Half agree?

I drive a gas guzzling sports car, on the other hand I drive about half a mile to work. And $5/gallon is fine by me. Get all those punk kids off my roads so I can open up the throttle a little more. I'm not going to use any less gasoline though.
bruceski said @ 5:34am GMT on 1st Mar
I drive a few times a month, all short distances. 24 mpg is better than buying a new car for that. Gotta love a city with an actual transit system.
rndmnmbr said @ 5:07am GMT on 1st Mar [Score:4 Insightful]
Sorry, I have to downmod. Some of us have no choice about driving 80 miles a day to go to work, it would be nice to see some of that money go to groceries instead.
hellboy said @ 6:40am GMT on 1st Mar
Which is why those high gas taxes should subsidize light rail and other public transportation, so you can sleep or read on your way to work. Otherwise yes, they'd just be regressive taxation.
wynterbourne said @ 8:23am GMT on 1st Mar
You assume that everyone lives in a location where public transportation is a viable option.
ComposerNate said @ 8:25am GMT on 1st Mar
Or rather he assumes most everyone could live in a location where public transportation could be a viable option, if subsidized.
Barnabas_Truman said @ 9:06am GMT on 1st Mar
Where is public transportation not a viable option? More importantly, why not?
anagramophone said @ 12:46pm GMT on 1st Mar
rural areas with low population density, sport.
ComposerNate said @ 12:50pm GMT on 1st Mar [Score:2 Insightful]
public jetpacks
bruceski said @ 8:51pm GMT on 1st Mar
Some cities have bus systems that aren't really funded or thought out enough to work. My brother griped about Irvine's system whose schedule was more a suggestion with hourly busses even right by the UC campus, while Portland's got a great network with some main routes even to outer areas running every 15-30 minutes, as well as an excellent website that'll help plan trips (though Google Maps does that too these days).
sanepride said @ 1:20pm GMT on 1st Mar
Yes. I do acknowledge that there are places in the US where public transportation may never be viable. People should continue to be encouraged through tax credits to drive fuel-efficient cars and I could certainly get behind income-based tax breaks for those who need to drive to get to work.
mrcucumber said @ 2:08pm GMT on 1st Mar
Somebody I know just got an RV. It gets 4.6 mpg. You think that deterred him from buying it or driving it up from florida? People should be encouraged to drive fuel efficient cars (electric) and take public transportation by making vehicles running on fossil fuels illegal. In other words, I don't think making gas expensive is going to initiate any kind of change in this country in regard to driving to the corner store for milk when you can walk. Or the kind of crap like the overwhelming single passenger guzzling gas SUV's coming from say, long island into Manhattan, clogging up the roadway and spewing pollution because they need to be "in control" and "free." Raising prices will just make all those conservative free market freaks complain about government intervention - creating even more of a mess. It will also punish those that have no choice.

The only thing that will make people stop driving gas vehicles is when the oil fields dry up. But yeah, I agree tax incentives would help those that don't really want to drive. Does this mean I get a tax credit for NOT owning a car?
dietcoke said @ 2:51pm GMT on 1st Mar [Score:-2]
have you NO common sense? Electric cars are more toxic then gas vehicles, or do you just love the coal plants spewing forth more pollution, or are you the out of sight out of mind type no brainer??
Electricty comes from burned resources for the most part, very little comes from water, most is from coal fired plants, do your homework.
sensibleb said @ 3:02pm GMT on 1st Mar [Score:1 Informative]
I know words aren't your strong suit, so here's a pretty picture:
mechanical contrivance said @ 11:35pm GMT on 1st Mar
He said "Electricty comes from burned resources for the most part, very little comes from water"
mrcucumber said @ 6:28pm GMT on 2nd Mar
That's not really relevant, though. He was responding to me, but I never said where that electricity should come from.
eIfish said @ 9:58pm GMT on 1st Mar
Power plants are way more effective than cars at cleaning up the byproducts of combustion. That their exhausts are the size of a tower block, and not the size of a Fun Noodle may have something to do with this.

As an added bonus, power plants tend to be in bumfuck nowhere, whereas cars are outside my house.
chold_numa said @ 10:23pm GMT on 1st Mar
Consider that the coal fired power plant gets daily maintenance to keep it working at near peak efficiency. Your car might get serviced every 10000 kilometers by a mechanic, who if you're lucky, does a few dozen of that type of engine a month. The power plant has a few dozen technicians, operators and engineers who maintain the same plant every day.

Even if you service your car at every recommended service interval, there's no guarantee your neighbour will. Or every other guy/gal at work. Or your accountant three suburbs over. Or the guy who teaches accordion in Portland, Oregon. And so on.
sanepride said @ 2:50am GMT on 2nd Mar
Your RV driving friend notwithstanding, historically gas price spikes do in fact encourage people to buy more fuel-efficient cars and even change their driving habits. The problem is prices inevitably stabilize, drop and people revert to their old guzzlin' ways. Sure I agree more drastic action at this point is appropriate but we won't see it in the current political reality.
mrcucumber said @ 2:17pm GMT on 1st Mar
Further, it's the system that is set up to speculate on all commodities. Opec has a great deal to do with gas prices as well. Remove speculation on petroleum and what happens? What if the market determines oil production and not those extracting and refining it controlling the economics of supply and demand?
mrcucumber said @ 1:58pm GMT on 1st Mar
You actually think all those taxes would subsidize light rail? Public transportation isn't in American DNA.
granitewitch said @ 2:41pm GMT on 1st Mar
Not true, we used to have loads of light rail in the early 20th Century before GM bought it up through dummy corporations and tore it up. You can go through almost any city and still see old rails peeking up through the pavement.
mrcucumber said @ 3:36pm GMT on 1st Mar
Having your own car is like having your own horse. Gm isn't the only one at fault, btw. Big oil starting at the turn of the century and Goodyear - the advent of bus transportation. But I disagree. Rugged individualism and capitalism is what "fueled" the disappearance of light rail. Taking away individual vehicles is like taking away guns. Don't think it will happen unless forced to.
Barnabas_Truman said @ 6:51am GMT on 2nd Mar
There's no need to take away anyone's vehicles. Just gradually change the system in such a way that public transit becomes cheap and easy and privately owned vehicles become annoyingly inconvenient and expensive.
mrcucumber said @ 1:16pm GMT on 2nd Mar
Can that work for guns as well?
eIfish said @ 7:38pm GMT on 2nd Mar
mrcucumber said @ 9:06pm GMT on 2nd Mar [Score:1 Insightful]
I've always said you should be required to buy gun insurance. No matter what. Just like cars. That would eliminate those that can't afford it, thus making those without gun insurance illegal subject to fines and imprisonment. But his conversation is about cars....well not really(paypal).
Barnabas_Truman said @ 10:47pm GMT on 4th Mar
Can that work for guns as well?

I really really hope so. At this point though, in America at least, it looks like the pro-gun lobby has pretty much won the game.
v21 said @ 2:10pm GMT on 1st Mar
The same is true anywhere. But there are far fewer people who have to drive 80 miles a day in countries where petrol is way more expensive.
a.talisan said @ 4:37pm GMT on 1st Mar
With the job market as bad as it is, right now people are forced to deal with longer commutes to work the jobs they can get - which often don't last very long.

If the economy was better, people would have a choice of employment options and would likely choose ones that didn't involve as much of a commute - or feel secure enough that job would last to justify moving closer to their place of work.

There are multiple factors to consider rather than "I ARE AMERICAN AND DESERVE TO FEEL THE WIND IN MY HAIR IN MY GIANT SUV, SUCKAS!!"
eIfish said @ 10:05pm GMT on 1st Mar
You never have 'no choice'. You've made a choice to commute the width of Israel, because hilariously cheap fuel makes it economically viable.

In a country where fuel cost more, you'd probably think about living and working in the same city, or at least the same county.
chold_numa said @ 10:31pm GMT on 1st Mar
That's probably more an effect of town planning/zoning and/or business incentives than anything else.
wangcan0 said @ 12:28am GMT on 2nd Mar
Yes. Because I could choose to work, or I could choose to be homeless.

Gas being expensive hurts -- but it hurts less than sleeping in my car, because the bank feels that there's a better return on their investment if my house is empty.
Barnabas_Truman said @ 6:52am GMT on 2nd Mar
Is there no other job within an 80 mile radius of your house?
eIfish said @ 7:34pm GMT on 2nd Mar [Score:1 Insightful]
Is there no other house within 80 miles of your job?
dietcoke said @ 2:47pm GMT on 1st Mar [Score:-5 Troll]
gas should be $20.00 a gallon for all euros, if ya do not produce it, ya should pay extreme amounts.
Gas should be next to free where I live, I live in third largest oil producing area in the usa, yet I pay the same amount for gas. Having refineries near me should automatically mean cheaper prices, we suffer the pollution so others can benefit.
On the plus side, honestly I hope gas prices keep going up and up, we just released 2 sections of land and they are putting in 3 more wells.
GO oil!!! GO PETRO HUNT YOU RULE!!!!!!!!!
(really loving that white people pushed my people onto this area of land, now we have the oil royalties wheeeee)
These past few years are wonderful!!!!!!!!!
dietcoke said @ 2:49pm GMT on 1st Mar [Score:-5 Troll]
yes I drive a gas guzzler SUV it gets 21 mpg, but oh well, I also drive thru over a foot depth of snow most of the winter and use the 4wd.

I also do not aid anyone that is stuck that does not have 4wd, if ya are driving thru the badlands in a econobox without proper tires and 4wd, ya gona end up shoveling, or die, weeds out the unprepared.
theolypse said @ 7:49pm GMT on 1st Mar [Score:2 Insightful]
It's as though you want the downmods.
foobar said @ 5:08am GMT on 1st Mar
Oil is not necessarily just fungible. Net-exporters can set local price caps.
mechanical contrivance said @ 3:24am GMT on 1st Mar
Here are more articles on the subject.
http://selenakitt.com/blog/index.php/2012/02/19/slippery-slope-erotica-censorship/
http://www.smashwords.com/press/release/28
http://www.the-digital-reader.com/2012/02/25/smashwords-succumbs-to-censorship/
kichijoii said @ 4:43am GMT on 1st Mar [Score:2 Underrated]
Fucking tired of Americans thinking they have to censor sexual content because it might offend "somebody."
NickelJoe said @ 6:13am GMT on 1st Mar [Score:2]
Replace the word Americans with the word people and I would agree.
danshyu said @ 6:23am GMT on 1st Mar
I guess they're not our pal afterall...
pleaides said @ 8:23am GMT on 1st Mar
*sniff*
Urzazero said @ 3:37pm GMT on 1st Mar
I would never pay for a pal!
ethanos said @ 11:39am GMT on 1st Mar
"Smashwords told all the Smashwords authors they would also have to remove paranormal romance that included shape-shifters - if the shape-shifters were to have sex in their non-human forms...."

So where do I go to get my romantic shape-shifter sex literature now?

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