Sensible Erection | Indiana state fair stage collapses, kills five.

Monday, 15 August 2011

Indiana state fair stage collapses, kills five.

quote [ Indiana officials Sunday began investigating the collapse of lights and rigging at a concert stage at the state fair Saturday night that killed five and injured more than four dozen. ]

[by nbob@3:44amGMT] [+10 WTF]

Comments

nbob said @ 3:44am GMT on 15th Aug [Score:5 WTF]
And the vid

ahPook said @ 4:19am GMT on 15th Aug
0:38 girl cracking up

GordonGuano said @ 4:41am GMT on 15th Aug [Score:2 Insightful]
It happens as a reaction to shock more often than you'd think.

sherlock said @ 6:19am GMT on 15th Aug
Congratulations, you've completed the "spot the sociopath" bonus goal in Where's Waldo.

Garr123 said @ 6:27am GMT on 15th Aug [Score:1 Insightful]
on a less tragic note, that sky is really beautiful.

bruceski said @ 3:46am GMT on 15th Aug
Fatass joke or cheap labor joke, fatass joke or cheap labor joke...

Fwee said @ 3:58am GMT on 15th Aug
Aren't there supposed to be building regulations and what not that prevent this from happening?

Hell, I'm in the middle of an architecture degree in Australia, and everything that is built has a huge amount of regulation and red tape surrounding it so that it will survive in a whole variety of stupidly excessive scenarios, so I just assume that the same regulation would apply to most first world countries.

spite48 said @ 4:07am GMT on 15th Aug
You don't want to over-regulate the job-creators do you?

granitewitch said @ 4:20am GMT on 15th Aug [Score:5 Informative]
I would imagine so. As an engineer I would guess that the stage was weighted down with too much equipment and such, more than it was designed for. Throw in a 60 mph wind, which one might design for as a maximum, put in a factor of safety of 1.5 to 2 and yeah, it comes down.

Had there been a bit more warning they would probably have evacuated the area, but it came in suddenly. I figure that the people in charge of the fair will get some blame for not evacuating fast enough and the structural people who designed the stage will get the rest of the blame.

David Lee Roth once explained the bit about the bowl of green M&Ms in their contract. It was a quick way of seeing if the fine print had been read, because their shows used large pieces of heavy equipment and they needed to be sure that the structural needs had been addressed before they'd go onstage. No M&Ms meant that the contract had not been thoroughly read, so they wouldn't take the risk. Smart.

Kat said @ 5:50am GMT on 15th Aug
Typically, the rule of thumb for stress on arena staging is usually to estimate at least ten time max load and force on all structure and points.

Kat said @ 7:17am GMT on 15th Aug
After reviewing the specs from the company supplying the stage/roof, I must disagree with your theory regarding the weight of the gear. That design and the gear used by that company seem well within the limits of what that stage would be expected to hold in suitable weather for a festival concert. Unless that PA was filled with lead bricks, of course.

So very, very unfortunate.

Kat said @ 4:21am GMT on 15th Aug
Most places do. More and more folks have to be ETCP rated to put up such a structure. Sadly, there are incidents like this every few years (this year, though, there have been at least two major incidents). The most notable I remember was the Justin Timberlake stage collapse.

ETCP info.

Two of the only ETCP riggers I know of in my area are always gone for a month out of the year while they set up an outdoor stage on a cruise ship that is meant to be completely secure for travel (although naturally not being used for performance during a typhoon or any such thing.

There are many things that could have gone wrong, but ti basically boils down to this:

The equipment failed or was flawed.
The design was flawed or inappropriate for the environment.
The rigger flat out failed.
Combination of the above.

There are regulations in place, and events like this are insured up to their ears; but sadly these things do happen all too frequently. It is a nightmare that all stage techs, riggers, and promoters never forget...and one that most try their best to avoid.

damnit said @ 5:37am GMT on 15th Aug
Usually they don't do these concerts in the midst of strong winds.

The structure was fine, until the tarp broke on one side and caught wind.

RajaYoga said @ 6:30am GMT on 15th Aug
It wasn't the tarp catching wind on one side. It was breaking of the tarp on the leeward side that allowed the creation of a negative space aka a low pressure buildup.

zarathustra said @ 7:01am GMT on 15th Aug
There are building regulations but they might not always apply to a non-permanent structure. But even when the do apply there is always the inspector with their hand out. During the economic good times the bribes are to make sure the inspector doesnt loose the papers for a month or two and push back opening. In bad times they are to ignore what is going on and sign off.

oranges said @ 4:02am GMT on 15th Aug
How long until Palin comments on this? Maybe she can blame it on the government.

Sarah Palin said @ 4:23am GMT on 15th Aug
The Tea Party would have prevented this, doncha know. By gum, those devil-worshiping rock stars wouldn't have performed on my watch! I blame Obama for this!

Supreme_Coconut said @ 5:44am GMT on 15th Aug
Pretty sure it was a country band that was set to perform.

Krutz said @ 6:05am GMT on 15th Aug
They were probably secret rock stars who were also secret muslims.

ahPook said @ 6:25am GMT on 15th Aug
They brought the house down without playing a note!

Krutz said @ 6:36am GMT on 15th Aug
That joke really fell flat.

spite48 said @ 6:40am GMT on 15th Aug
Your callousness really blows me away.

DonegalSimon said @ 7:06am GMT on 15th Aug
It was a crushing blow to the fans.

Krutz said @ 7:34am GMT on 15th Aug
It's causing a storm of controversy.

nbob said @ 9:29am GMT on 15th Aug
The organizers must be under high pressure.

sacrelicious said @ 7:54pm GMT on 15th Aug
they won't, and it's just not fair.

EPT said @ 12:28am GMT on 16th Aug
What's everyone getting worked up over? This was just an Einstüerzende Neubauten gig...

EPT said @ 12:29am GMT on 16th Aug
(linky fail...)

Kat said @ 4:08am GMT on 15th Aug
Very sad, and the nightmare of every stage rigger.

Supreme_Coconut said @ 1:09pm GMT on 15th Aug [Score:3 Funny]
Rigger, please.

GordonGuano said @ 4:39am GMT on 15th Aug
"The rigging...fell about 9 p.m. Saturday, minutes before the country duo Sugarland was set to take the stage."

GOD DAMN YOU, FREAK GUST OF WIND! IF YOU'D BLOWN FIVE MINUTES LATER, YOU COULD HAVE MADE MY SUMMER!

GordonGuano said @ 4:40am GMT on 15th Aug
Whoops, was thinking of Lonestar, Sugarland is just pop pablum and not offensively bad.

lilmookieesquire said @ 6:14am GMT on 15th Aug
To be fair, it could have been very very strong gust of wind.

Kat said @ 7:06am GMT on 15th Aug [Score:4 Informative]
This is the company that supplied the roof and stage.

As a few riggers have pointed out: none of their pictured outdoor stages appear to have weighted the roof to the truss. They have cables anchoring it to the ground, but nothing fixed on the top truss itself. The going theory is that this is what caused the roof to act as a sail and create a larger amount of force on the structure than would normally be anticipated.

A look at their specs for the stage in question.

Traditionally these stages can be flown in with motors in cases of bad weather. They lower the PA/lights/roof via the motors and call the show off. The problem seems to be that someone didn't have time to/was not willing to make that decision.

Kat said @ 7:18am GMT on 15th Aug [Score:1 Informative]
The truss used in the structure.

nbob said @ 9:30am GMT on 15th Aug
So are you like an events coordinator or engineer or something?

Kat said @ 4:15pm GMT on 15th Aug [Score:1 Informative]
I am an audio engineer.

sacrelicious said @ 7:53pm GMT on 15th Aug
so you have the expertise to determine if something is structurally sound?

nbob said @ 12:24am GMT on 16th Aug
Listen, sac, I won't put up with that kind of tone towards Kat.

pelon said @ 3:35am GMT on 16th Aug
The tone stings, but it's the message itself that really hertz.

Krutz said @ 4:06am GMT on 16th Aug
I don't care for his amplitude.

sacrelicious said @ 6:29am GMT on 16th Aug
one what do you bass that opinion?

devolutionary said @ 7:49am GMT on 16th Aug
Is it wrong that I cried out "TIIIIIMBRRRRRRE!" watching this video?

sacrelicious said @ 9:06am GMT on 16th Aug
it means you're un-balanced.

zarathustra said @ 6:07pm GMT on 16th Aug
Sturm und Drang all around.

Krutz said @ 8:03pm GMT on 16th Aug
Ugh, that was just treble.

zarathustra said @ 9:11pm GMT on 16th Aug
forte you.

Jewbacchus said @ 9:22pm GMT on 16th Aug
Why can't you two just find some unity?

mrcucumber said @ 12:37pm GMT on 15th Aug
I can't tell very well because it's youtube, but it appears as though one of the ballast cables broke - either at the top or bottom. It also looks as though wind gust speeds exceeded 60-mph(and the website doesn't list it's wind gust load capacity).

My guess is that it was a combination of either material or fastener failure as a result of the wind - the back of the stage had obstructions (meaning "walled off" with a tarp or similar), preventing the wind from passing through - ultimately pushing the structure over. The design shown on the company's website has an open back. I wonder if some event producer took it upon themselves to NOT have his nifty stage design reviewed by an engineer. I've worked with very arrogant event producers and riggers because they've done shows for famous people and have ignored proper process and protocol.

Also, structures such as these have different permitting because they are temporary, so the process is different. If it's an "off the shelf" design, all the engineering would be done already, and it would be inspected and supervised by engineers when it went up. There are contingencies when weather exceeds maximum allowable loads, and it looks like they where already evacuating.

In the end, whoever approved the concert with this kind of weather and that particular truss configuration is going to have their hands full.

Kat said @ 4:14pm GMT on 15th Aug
The stage is actually a specific, classic, arena staging that is used all over the world. It has been rated, tested, and implemented for decades. The reason that the website does not list a wind rating is that the stage is not meant to be used in such weather. The idea is that if you have the type of wind that can cause an incident like this: the stage shouldn't be fully raised, and there should not be an event going on.

The original engineer is James Thomas from the UK. The stage was purchased from James Thomas Engineering, and (in theory) was set up by ETCP Arena stage certified riggers (there are 8 in Indiana).

I would be surprised if this was a case of the rigger being arrogant, as safety is the number one focus of the job. In my experience, there are often arrogant riggers who work as the ground support team to a main rigger doing the main rig; but they never get past being on the ground due to arrogance and a lack of respect of the trade.

Although I would be quite surprised if the truss design was flawed, I do agree that the show should have been called off much sooner. Currently, estimates about the wind factor put the speed at roughly 75mph.

mrcucumber said @ 8:58pm GMT on 16th Aug
From val's link above :

The structure must be assembled to minimize the surface area that the wind can blow upon (break-away canopy tarps, vent flaps, etc.) and the structure must be secured to withstand the forces expected to be imposed upon it under severe weather conditions. A proper weather emergency plan would have included the precaution of lowering the canopy to stage level, too, so that the

and :

here are a lot people that believe cutting slits in the backdrops ‘allows the air to pass through.’ Yes, in very small quantities. A sail with holes in it is still a sail!

This is what I saw. Canopy's and tarps with no vents or break away contingencies, along with going ahead with the event before the storm front passed.

mrcucumber said @ 9:00pm GMT on 16th Aug
Arrrgghh

The structure must be assembled to minimize the surface area that the wind can blow upon (break-away canopy tarps, vent flaps, etc.) and the structure must be secured to withstand the forces expected to be imposed upon it under severe weather conditions.

Kat said @ 9:37pm GMT on 16th Aug
From my response above:
"The idea is that if you have the type of wind that can cause an incident like this: the stage shouldn't be fully raised, and there should not be an event going on."

Not disagreeing with you, just sayin'. Again, I know guys who rig a similar arrangement to this stage on a cruise ship. It is meant to withstand a typhoons and squalls *when lowered*.

As the article also points out: it's not just a matter of finding fault with the structure. It's about why the structure was not lowered and the show called off.

mrcucumber said @ 11:37pm GMT on 16th Aug
Definitely. The show should have been suspended or called off entirely.

val said @ 4:15am GMT on 16th Aug [Score:1 Informative]
http://www.jimonlight.com/2011/08/15/indiana-state-fair-stage-collapse-five-dead-now-what/

This may offer additional insight.

Kat said @ 8:22pm GMT on 16th Aug
Good points. I disagree with the suggestion of not hanging any PA's, though. There are plenty of PA's that do no interfere with lowering the roof of a structure. PA's That are attached to roofs would still be able to be lowered enough to withstand most weather. Also, not hanging a PA would mean raising it via other means...like scaffolding. If the PA is in a fixed structure that cannot be lowered during bad weather, the risk of it toppling will be just as great...just without the option of lowering it prior to potential collapse.

sacrelicious said @ 6:29pm GMT on 15th Aug
off topic of disasters, but on topic of fairs:

the Washington County Fair in Hillsboro Oregon (don't ask) has been running ads this year featuring a female narrator that speaks in a thick southern accent. I'm talkin' deep-in-the-heart-of-dixie. sayin' things like "sweetie" and "ya'll". and not poor white trash southern, but verging on southern aristocracy southern. I do not get this AT ALL. we are nowhere near the south, and while we have rural folk like everyone else, that particular accent being used to sell a local fair is exactly as out of place as if they'd used a NYC accent "do we got elephant ears? fuggetaboutit!" it makes no sense, and the only thing I can figure is that some marketing type couldn't distinguish between a redneck accent (as many of our local rurals speak with) and an upper class southern accent.

come to think of it, I actually want to see a local fair use a thick new yorker accent in their commercials next year.

bruceski said @ 6:36pm GMT on 15th Aug
All Americans talk the same. Like the English.

sacrelicious said @ 7:32pm GMT on 15th Aug [Score:1 Interesting]
I was at a party a couple weeks ago and there was this British guys there that everyone suspected was faking. I was just drunk enough to challenge his claim of nationality (and I guess just anglophile enough to come up with sufficient challenges). his accent was thickly Liverpudlian, but he claimed to have never been there. he said he was born in Manchester (alright, I don't know the Manchester accent all that well, but close enough to liverpool to have that particular lilt I suppose), but spent most of his life in Wales. and here was one of the thinks that really raised a red flag: when he said "Wales" he said that word, and that word only, with a particular specificity every single time. like he would be speaking casually, but every time he said "Wales" that word would come out very formally and very emphasized, you know? as if, to my mind, he had practiced that word, like one would practice certain words and phrases when teaching oneself to fake a regional accent. there was another similar situation with the phrase "do you think I'm yankin' your chain?", which he must have said fifteen times in the conversation at least. and every time he said it it came out exactly the same. like you could have recorded the conversation and in editing swapped one instance of the phrase for any others and only the most acutely trained ears would have noticed a difference. it sounded that consistent every time. that was VERY suspicious. in addition to all that, he was laying on the accent VERY thickly, and no matter how thick it might have been for a longtime-manchesterite, if he spent most of his life in Wales you'd think it would have softened and morphed into a Welsh, or at least region-indistinct british accent somewhat.

so I grilled him on trivia. knowing what his answer would be, I asked him to name a band from Manchester. naturally, he named Joy Division. then I asked him to name a second, gambling that it may trip him up. he named one I did not recognize, but another person there looked them up on a smartphone, and they checked out. someone else asked him to speak welsh. he spoke some gobbelty-gook that I couldn't understand, but as I have only a few instances in movies of hearing the welsh language spoken, I didn't feel confident in my own perceptions of that language to doubt him. he offered a strange one: he said "have you ever heard of Tim Tams?" my eyes lit up, as I've long dreamt of one day getting ahold of some to try the storied Tim Tam Slam for myself (a close friend is going to SA for a couple of weeks and says he'll "see what he can do") but as soon and my excitement subsided I called him on it. I had done my fucking homework on Tim Tams, and they don't have em in the UK. they have something similar, but not Tim Tams. why would he bring them up in this context? that pretty much clenched it, he had to be faking. but if he was faking he was doing it really, really well, and had done his homework thoroughly, cause try as I or anyone else might, he could not be tripped up conclusively. I found the whole conversation intensely fascinating and fun, and as extended his hand for a shake he said "do you believe me?" even though I was still on the fence I lied and said that I did. if he was faking, he had earned that through a particularly well played charade. either that or I had severely annoyed an immigrant.

yeah, I think I'm going to hell.

EPT said @ 12:34am GMT on 16th Aug
Tim Tams is a weird one coming from a pom.

If he was Welsh(ish), you could have asked him "What do you call a sheep tied to a lamppost in Cardiff?" and see if he correctly says "a leisure centre".

Other things to go for are words that differ between the countries - yanks tend to say 'sidewalk', poms tend to say 'footpath' and the like.

radioelectric said @ 5:12am GMT on 16th Aug
RE: The "Wales" thing - that's completely normal.

madpride said @ 8:08pm GMT on 15th Aug

mantis80 said @ 2:05am GMT on 16th Aug [Score:4 Informative]
I was well out of harm's way, but I was in the audience for this, it was quite surreal. After it happened, there was a general feeling from everyone around us of "well shit, we definitely just saw some people die." I am very interested to see what comes of this, as I do believe there was negligence involved. I checked the radar on my phone around 8:35 and it was rather fucking obvious that we were going to get hammered. Ten minutes later, my group was starting to think we should split given how fast the front was moving. The concert representative took to the stage around 8:45 to tell us where we should go IF the storm hit. An official evacuation order was apparently in the works back stage, but the "oh shit, we need to go" order came too soon. The official released timeline states that the storm was predicted to hit around 9:15 (which is accurate in terms of rain and lightning). First, there has to be some sort of policy that states that the occurrence of that much lightning that close to the venue requires an evacuation. Second, what kind of dumb ass decided it would be a good idea to have the band take the stage for 10 minutes before they realized that an (inevitably chaotic) evacuation was necessary. No one could have foreseen this specific event, but there should not have been anyone near the stage. I certainly gained new respect for the unexpected power of weather. I will also no longer grumble when someone makes the decision to clear 12,000 people out on a freak chance. That size of group have to be told to leave, not given a choice.

blackpsypher said @ 4:08am GMT on 16th Aug
Without getting all wordy; based on the direction the wind is coming from, I'm guessing the top canopy blowing off the right side was a cause of, and not a result of, the structural collapse.