Thursday, 10 February 2011
Speaking of Indonesia: Murder of three members of Ahmadiyah minority focuses attention on legal restrictions on group.
quote [ Video footage has emerged of a gang of Muslim men beating to death three members of the Ahmadiyah sect in Indonesia. ]
Rights groups and the Indonesian government have condemned the killings, but some critics say a three-year-old law banning Ahmadis from spreading their faith incited the violence.
The Video which is graphic and the reason for the NSFW marking:[politics] [by nbob@1:56pmGMT] [+3 Informative]
It's just pathetic how the police are just standing there watching this happen. I'm told this video was actually recorded by one of the policemen present.
President SBY is calling this a 'clash' rather than an attack. I haven't read or listened to the full speech but it seems like he's calling this an unfortunate event, before launching an investigation which may result in some sackings. This lackluster response is not only further setting back what token religious pluralism existed beforehand, but it's going to encourage similar acts of religious based violence unless some pretty drastic response measures are implemented.
You'll also notice some are wearing a blue ribbon on their chest and that police are also present, indicating not only that this was planned well before-hand, but that the police knew about it.
Ahmadiyya is a sect of Islam originally from India and was formed by who someone claimed to be another Islamic prophet. The root of the conflict is that Muhammad was meant to be the last one.
To imagine what could lead from a disagreement to actual physical violence, this is the leader of an extremist group in Indonesia, Front Pembela Islam (Islamic Defender's Front):
There's a vid that translates what he's saying which I can't find, but the text at the beginning says "Threats of Violence made in Public" and he's effectively saying "Kill Ahmadiyas!" (Bunuh=kill), and that their blood is "halal" because their sect is destructive to Islamic beliefs. Despite constant harassing like this against Ahmadis (whose faith is banned in Indonesia) and against Christians, FPI itself is not a banned organization in Indonesia.
said @ 2:12pm GMT on 10th Feb
Video of the incident:
Highlights of what he's saying:
Threats of Violence made in public:
(snip) And we'll invite the Muslim world to come and declare war on Ahmadiyya! To kill Ahmadiyya wherever they are! God is great! (Audience: God is great)
Kill kill kill kill kill!!!!
Ahmadiyya! They're Halal (ok) to kill! Already Halal! Ahmadiyya, Halal to kill. And to those who say Human Rights: Fuck Human Rights!
p.s if anyone does find the vid with the clear English subtitles, please post it because I can't find it and there are bits I can't hear properly that I'd like to know what he's saying.
said @ 4:40am GMT on 11th Feb
Were there any justice in this world, any leader saying "Fuck Human Rights!" would immediately be a target of the American war machine.
Unfortunately, the actions of said war machine to date indicate that there is, in fact, no justice in this world.
said @ 2:35pm GMT on 10th Feb
It seems to me that Indonesia is to the World as Florida is to the United States (except for the old people).
said @ 6:19pm GMT on 10th Feb
Bunch of retired Jews driving Lincoln towncar and owing condos in Indonicia?
Or the police speak Spanish?
said @ 6:44pm GMT on 10th Feb
lol, no... mostly because both Indonesia and Florida seem to be aggregators of batshiat insane people.
said @ 11:10pm GMT on 10th Feb
I lived in Indonesia for four years, and I can guarantee you that the population of Florida is far and away more fucked up. There are 200+million people in Indonesia, and the vast majority of them are not fundamentalist crazies shown in these videos. One guy I knew summed up his view of religion in the following way: "If the girl I like is Muslim, I'm Muslim. If she's Hindu, I'm Hindu. If she's a Christian, I'm a Christian." This ambivalence did not seem uncommon. On the whole, Indonesians are some of the kindest people you will probably never meet, which is a shame, because it's a beautiful country, the food is awesome (I still dream about it frequently 11 years later), and the people are incredibly friendly. Go visit.
said @ 11:38pm GMT on 10th Feb
"I lived in Indonesia for four years, and I can guarantee you that the population of Florida is far and away more fucked up."
Two days ago...
A large crowd of angry Muslims attacked three churches, a Christian orphanage and a Christian health centre in Indonesia, Tuesday. A Holy Family Missionary priest was violently beaten. Fr Saldhana was in his parish church of Sts. Peter and Paul, when the mob broke in and began vandalizing the sacred space. Fr. Saldhana was beaten as he tried to protect the tabernacle and the Eucharist. The violence erupted when a crowd of Muslims heard that a Christian missionary had been sentenced to 5 years’ prison for profaning Islam. The rioters demanded the death penalty.
(Widely reported - just google it)
Ten years ago...
In January 1999, anti-Christian violence erupted by local Muslims. "Tens of thousands died when Moslem gunmen terrorized Christians who had voted for independence in East Timor."
(Widely reported - this from Wiki)
Just like Florida...
said @ 4:52am GMT on 11th Feb
Pensacola, FL: This city was a focal point for anti-abortion crime from mid 1984 to mid 1994:
1984-JUN: An abortion clinic was bombed.
1984-DEC: The same clinic was bombed again.
1986-MAR: A second clinic was broken into and vandalized; two female employees were assaulted. John Burt, a former member of the KKK, and his daughter were tried and convicted. John Burt became the local leader of Rescue America.
1993-MAR: Michael Griffin, allegedly a member of Rescue America, assassinated Dr. David Gunn outside an abortion clinic. Griffin's lawyers claimed that Burt had brainwashed Griffin into committing the killing. (There is a consensus among mental health professionals that this sort of "Manchurian Candidate" programming is impossible). Griffin was convicted and given a life sentence.
1994-JUL: Paul Hill, a former Presbyterian minister and leader in Defensive Action assassinated a physician and bodyguard outside another abortion clinic; he also wounded the wife of the bodyguard. He was sentenced to both life imprisonment on federal charges, and execution on state charges.
1994-AUG: Five KKK groups demonstrated adjacent to an abortion clinic in Melbourne FL. They were opposed to abortions given to whites; they encourage abortions to persons of other races. They named Hill their hero of the month.
Took me fewer than five minutes to find this via Google. That's just ten years' worth of religious violence in only ONE CITY (not the largest one) in Florida.
said @ 11:32am GMT on 11th Feb
Three deaths. Three too many to be sure. But the comparison to what occurs on a regular basis in Indonesia is untenable.
You go back nearly 20 years regarding the bombing of abortion clinics in Florida - I'll take you back a whopping two months in Indonesia...
December 7 2010
"Archbishop of Semarang, has called the entire Catholic community "to remain calm" after the explosion of two bombs in the church of Christ the King"
Also on the same day (A separate incident)
"Two other letter bombs were found in Surakarta, about 20 miles east of Kartasura: the first in a yard, the second near the police station in Pasar Kliwon"
Then (instead of going back nearly twenty years) lets go back 48 hours before that, to December 5:
"December 5 another letter bomb was found in the Protestant church in Muria Indonesia in Surakarta, shortly before the service began."
And instead of going back to the early 1990's lets go back four days earlier than that... to December 1st:
"On 1 December, there was also a foiled explosion of homemade grenades near the shrine of the Sendand Sriningsih Virgin Mary."
Or how about the week before that:
"In October, another letter bomb was found in a Protestant church in GKJ Gebyog in Kartasura."
Those incidents cover only recent ONE MONTH...
Just like Florida?
Not. Even. Close.
said @ 11:58am GMT on 11th Feb
I see some twat in this thread downmoded the simple posting of facts as trolling - can't better illustrate a blinkered worldview than that can you?
said @ 2:40pm GMT on 10th Feb
The Indonesian president's justification reminds me of Mr. Blonde.
MR. BLONDE: "Yeah, bam, bam, bam, bam, bam. I told 'em not to touch the alarm - they touched it. If they hadn't done what I told 'em not to do, they'd still be alive."
said @ 3:37pm GMT on 10th Feb
I wonder how their tourist trade is going.
said @ 7:03pm GMT on 10th Feb
'OH SKYCAKE, WHY ARE YOU SO DELICIOUS"
said @ 8:21pm GMT on 10th Feb
Weird, their president is referred to by acronym rather than one of his several amusing names.
said @ 2:48pm GMT on 11th Feb
Update - Feb 11:
Fears for man who filmed Indonesia mob attack
JAKARTA - AN INDONESIAN man who risked his life to film a mob brutally lynching members of his minority Islamic sect is in grave danger and has gone into hiding, rights activists said on Friday.
The harrowing video of Sunday's attack shocked the mainly Muslim nation and graphically illustrated rising levels of intolerance and violence directed at religious minorities such as the Ahmadiyah sect.
It showed police running away as hundreds of Muslim thugs screaming 'Allahu akbar' (God is greatest) attacked a house belonging to an Ahmadiyah leader.
Three sect members were stabbed, clubbed and stoned to death.
Just like Florida...